Category: Let's talk
I was trying to play shades of doom earlier and gave up after awhile because I had no idea what I was doing or where I was going. It seems that, whenever I try to play any kind of game involving maizes or many rooms, whether it's a text game or an audio one, I get completely confused an never know where I am. I can't visualise it in my head, even if it's described to me in the help file. The only exceptions to this are games where each room is actually described in text, and even there, only in small places with logical rooms like a house instead of a maise or dungeon. Simply telling me that there's a pasage on the left and the right won't really help me. I've been totally blind since I was two-months-old and my mobility in real life isn't that good. My spacial awareness certainly is nowhere near as bad as it is in these games but I have trouble remembering outdoor places that are new. The only way I could really learn a route etc is not to travel it constantly but to have an actual map for me to read before and sometimes even during my travel. Yet buildings, providing they're not huge, are far easier for me to lern. So I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem, particularly if you've been blind all your life. If you had sight and remember it, do you think that it helps you to imagine these sorts of layouts? Also, for reference, are you more of a mathematics and science type of person or a literature and arts type? I'm the latter.
I'm an artsy/literature girl, but I firmly believe that the more sight you've had, the better you are at mobility. I lost mine when I was 11, and though I might find mobility stressful and generally aggrivating, I can visualize routes and rooms very easily. You can feel of a square all you like, but until you've seen it, you're not going to be able to see it in your mind. Not to say that life-long totals can't be good at mobility, it's just easier if you've seen the world and can picture the area around you.
I read an article a few years back which said we all use the same visual processing centers blind or sighted. That one made sense for me, at least, as even though I'm a 'total' (blind in this case), and a lifer, I get around fine. There is something like sound which bounces off of things giving away where and in many cases what they are. It's much easier to have an understanding of an area, than it is to try and remember left, right, left ... I tend to get details turned around but I seriously don't think that's my sight. I get symbols turned around in Braille a lot, or at least did when I was first learning as a kid, and yet I'm quite a fast Braille reader.
But anyway, not knowing that many blind people myself, I just thought this was just how it was. That is, until someone told me a few years ago that many blind people, especially those with the syndrome that is caused by oxygen in the incubators, can't do this stuff too well, she called it 'spacially aware'. I had no idea that was even a term, until she said that I was and explained this about someone else who really couldn't get around.
So my attitude to the whole thing is, apparently there's something internal to it, as it's not like I woke up one day saying "Wow, I think I'll improve this!" I've just been this way.
On the other hand, I have sighted relatives who can't find their ass with both hands and a map, so I really question, except maybe what she said about the incubator thing, that it would be anything to do with being blind. The reason you notice it with you more than someone sighted, is that they get more feedback: they see the yellow building or whatever it is they depend upon. But if they go away for a few weeks and come back to find that building is repainted, trust me, they can be as lost as you.
I think it must be something internal. Perhaps someone who's an instructor on here can comment.
Personally I dig Shades of Doom and Tank Commander: Crack afew cold ones first, then put on the headphones and take the game controller and go! The shoot-outs are fun, but of course it's like playing war as a kid, you will get turned around in a fight, and hopefully you don't blow out one of the fans you use as a landmark.
I almost never use the speech in there, or the military coordinates. Waiting for it to talk will slow you down. Just use the sounds and you probably will get used to it somehow. I don't know, though.
Very interesting. I've also heard, from an excellent mobility instructor, that the same things hold true for people who were born prematurely. I was born two months premature and consequently spent quite awhile in an incubator, which goes back to what you've just stated. We're still not sure exactly if that's what caused my blindness, though I was diagnosed with ROP, so it's a strong possibility. In any case, I bet I'll learn alot from this thread.
I'm a total blind person, and i'm quite skilled at mobility. once i've been in an area long enough to find the main streets and stuff i'll remember that area really to the point other blind, and even sighted people will ask me for directions.
my maps are dam good too, and i have rop, so i don't think ti's a rop thing. i think it's down to visual mapping, which you only truly have if you've seen, spacial awareness etc, imho anyway.
Tifanitsa, I suck at playing Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, and several other of those types of audio games for the same reason you do. That, and I get too impatient with them. I don't like having a game where I have to spend more time figuring out where the hell I am than I spend playing the thing.
But to your mobility in real life thing... I have been totally blind all my life as well. I have really good echo location, which saves my butt in mobility a lot of the time, and have been taught not to rely so much on route travel, but to use traffic, topography, and most of all, a knowledge of the address system in the city where I'm at to get around. I'm not totally against route travel: sometimes you need just that, especially if you're not going to be going many places in that area. but I'm glad I was given a set of more transferrable skills.
I'd never heard the thing about ROP before. Interesting, Robo. I think it also boils down to some of us having different strengths and weaknesses. I'm not sure why this is, but I have a friend who can't find his way out of a paper bag if he's indoors. Even if it's a place he's been a zillion times, he still gets lost and disoriented. But put him traveling outdoors, and the guy is a human GPS: can find just about anything accurately, cross really complicated intersections safely and easily, etc. I've seen the opposite happen, too: someone can find anything indoors, but suck outdoors. That used to be me, and still is, to a point. I'm far better at indoor travel, but I think it's because I feel more comfortable there. When I went for my center training years ago, my travel instructor pointed out that I had all the skills, and was a good traveler, I just had no self-confidence. He was right. Now that I'm back in a bigger city, and travel more, I'm gaining that back, which makes my outdoor travel a lot better.
I'd definitely like to learn the set of skills that you have. Route travel never seemed like a good idea to me for several reasons, one of which is that, if there's construction and so on in your path, you won't really know an alternative route. also, if you've never been to a place before you can't really rely on a route that you don't know. I want to be able to travel wherever whenever not be forced to always go the same way and only to the same places.
Precisely. Those are reasons I'm glad I have the skills I do, too. But most mainstream O&M won't teach you that. Most O&M professionals seem to think we can do only route travel. It's frustrating. I know there is much that can be said of the NFB Centers, bad and good, and I don't want to get into a debate about all that here. There are other boards where that is debated. I will only say that those travel skills were the best thing that came of my time at the Colorado Center for the Blind.
What really helped me with outdoor travel was when I finally understood cardinal directions. I didn't get that till CCB, either. Since my previous instruction had all been route travel, it was, "turn right here, or left here." Once I was taught about cardinal directions, it really saved my butt. Also, I learned that, when in a city, it was important to learn the address system. Like here where I live, I can generally know which side of the street something is on, based on whether it has an odd or even numbered address, etc. And that's not just here. I've learned that in other cities as well, so that the address system can really tel you a lot about where you're going.
No method is perfect, but that's some of the stuff that helps me.
my mobility instructor didn't give you pure route based instructions, he wanted you to use addresses as well, but he would suggest you use the same routes in certain areas, to a point. he never told you you had to use this route to get to this place, but he would make suggestions as he'd been around the area much longer and knew some of the easier things for those with different situations, me having a hearing disability as well as blindness for example.
This is an interesting parallel--games and real life--it makes me wonder. I've been totally blind sinse birth and my mobility is a bit abuv average I'd say. The thing here is the picturing of maps, mazes, houses, etc. I've always had no trouble with that...I could get a good floor plan in my head. I think it all comes down to your personal experiances.
Perhaps. I find that I can do this if the writing is really descriptive. But there are some things that are just really abstract and go right over my head.
Yes echo location was the word the one woman used who was referring to the incubator situation, thanks Alicia. And yes what you say makes sense, everyone's got strengths and weaknesses. That sucks that people are taught mobility without cardinal directions, I guess I'm most fortunate.
Cardinal directions are useful for people who can see as well, and many of them can benefit. When we lived downtown for awhile I taught my daughter, who can see, how to tell where she was in relation to the river and a few other landmarks including using cardinal directions.
So what are cardinal directions? do you mean things like East, West, North and South? I kind of get those but withthings like Northeast, Southwest, I get completely confused.
Yeah, cardinal directions are north ,east, etc. It can get confusing when things are on an angle, I know. But at least it gives me a general direction to go in. And, when someone says that a building is on the northeast corner, that tells me exactly which corner I need to be at. Things like that are what's helped me the most. Is it that kind of thing you're confused about, Tifanitsa?
never tried cardinal directions but you all got me thinking that it could be really useful.
Am generally good learning roots through sheer repetativeness, but like a few I know if you give me a map things just wouldn't make sense in turms of getting from A to B practically, its the same with mathamatical 2D diagrams or anything like that.
how do most people find crossing major roads? find it a nightmare, and generally find there's to much to concentrate on, doesn't really help that I got struck by a car whilst doing this one time.
Best
Jack
one of the five women i call my heart sisters has total vision. Often when we get lost, which is a regular occurance, she asks me for directions. I can remember how to go and the turns a lot better than does she. When I was a child, on long car trips, my mom and dad would quiz me mercilessly about "where were we just. How would you get home? What routes were we on? where do they go after or before, etc et ect." At the time, i thought it was a lame thing to do, but now am grateful as heck. Often, when I daydream, I design the neighborhood in which my characters will travel and decorate their houses etc. Very weird.
I use echo location a lot. In fact, I really rely just as much on that as I do my cane.
I never had instructors that relied on cardinal directions but I've always somehow got from place to place.
I'm not sure on the whole echo location thing. there was a documentary in the UK a while ago concerning a guy who went round clicking his tongue and was supposedly able to get around without a cain or any kind of aid. For the sheer sake of discussion, how useful do you find echo location? i my self think its useful in some situations, but equally would feel very uncomfortable clicking my tongue surrounded by sighted people.
I personally don't care what other think. So long as it works I'd do it. As for the man you're describing, one of my mobility instructors knew him. He can do alot, yes, but people often tell him to use a cane because he misses things like steps etc. echo location is a bit difficult to use in those kinds of situations. I love it, though, and would really like to learn how to use it properly. I know they have actual clicking devices but have never seen them. I'd also love to use one of those lazer canes if I can get my hands on one. I know the older ones are relatively cheap now but the new ones are still very expensive.
Maybe my whole understanding of echo location is wrong. I thought it was the use of surrounding sound, even when you move or the wind blows it makes noise and bounces off of stuff. At least that's what I use, in combination with a cane. You're right, the cane's for drop-offs and anything at foot level but I can even hear when I walk past short grass. I think it's hearing anyway. I'm sure there's an explanation, that hopefully could help someone who doesn't know how. Unfortunately, I have never learned this, it's just been there. Before joining these boards, I just attributed it to being a lifer. Now I don't know.
Although I have not clicked my tongue as you describe, I have popped my cane in the middle of a large parking lot to see where the building is, maybe get an idea where the door might be since glass, metal and brick sound different. Well glass and metal about the same but you get the idea.
Anyway it would be nice for those that need help getting access to this, if someone on here who trains people could maybe explain it for them. To me it just seems unfortunate for someone to live blind without it, as for me it does so much, in 3d, space if you will. Hopefully it is something that can be given to people via some form of instruction as it is extremely handy. Like anything, it's got its shortcomings particularly in fog and snow, even when it's extremely clear, where the echo from something makes it appear to be very close to you when it's way far away. But all things have limits and nothing's perfect, but still. You get multidimensionality and the GMA people did a pretty good job of imitating it, at least on a very basic level.
Anyway, hope there's a way to give it to some of you all that don't have it yet, as it does prove most helpful.
That is correct. echo location is using the air around you. It is not clicking like a retard in public.
No offense if you do that.
It seems as if you're an expert in echo location and don't even realise it. These things are also noticable to me, and I try to use that ability whenever I can. But i don't get out much and am always with someone when I do. So unless we're specifically doing something for mobility, it's usually quicker and more efficient to use a combination of my cane and sighted guide.
Robo, your explanation of echo location was extremely well-written. I don't think any O&M instructor could have described it much better. And I agree with Margorp. that documentary about the guy going around clicking his tongue annoyed the hell out of me. Doing that is absolutely no substitution for a cane or a dog, and it does make us look like absolute idiots!
I hear sound echo off the tapping of my cane, sometimes my footsteps, the sound the wind makes while blowing around or past an object, etc. If I'm talking to someone as we walk, I can also hear it in my own voice bouncing off things.
Jack, you asked about crossing major intersections. It's all about the traffic. I wait till I have a good parallel surge, then go with it. You have to be careful to listen for turners, )people who turn right on red for example), but I've never gotten hit by a car. I pray I don't. Turn islands and T intersections can be a bit tricky, but I've learned how to manage those as well. Writing it out would be a bit complicated, but I could try, if you want.
The trick to intersections with excessive turn lanes is to follow the parallel traffic that is closest to you, meaning it's going past your shoulder.
Think about it like this: The traffic signal is not a random affair, but a traffic organizer. So, when the parallel traffic is in motion, naturally the traffic in front of you is not going, or ought not. In order for a car to turn properly, it must be in a turn lane. That's why if you ride along with someone sighted and they "miss their turn", frequently it's not that they could not turn there physicaly, they just needed to be in the correct lane.
So when the parallel traffic right next to you starts moving, brushing past your shoulder if you will, they can't turn. Turn lanes are typically right next to the curb on the side of the street the driver would be turning.
Also once you start going, *go!* and don't dawdle. With speed, your the inertia of your movement will help keep you in a straighter line. This is why you really want to follow / be alongside of the parallel traffic.
I never square up or do my foot thing or whatever the terms are. That stuff gets me all confused: I just walk up to the street, listen to the cars in front of me which gives me a perpendicular angle, then when the parallel starts going follow them. If you're unsure, just wait out an entire light cycle or two and concentrate on the parallel movements. I'm not recommending it one way or the other: I've had an instructor not mind, and another say I go in terrible form / she would never let her students do that.
but with looking at the situation geometrically you can even successfully jaywalk, something a ton of pedestrians do out here. Successfully doesn't mean you step in front of something coming, and I'm not recommending it of course.
However traffic is quite patterned. If you have no chance at parallel then there's a factor you really cannot depend upon, which is why I hope to get an audio walk signal out here.
But for most places, figuring out the rhythm of how a signal works will let you use it. Motorists have to do it too, though they do not describe it as such. Listening to the traffic you will get an idea of when the lights are changing from green to yellow to red, etc. A car has to get into gear, or get out of gear as the case may be, and in a majority of cases at an intersection traffic is usually at least somewhat organized. Otherwise, there'd be a pile-up with hunks of metal everywhere.
Anyway hope this is enough to get you started. If you have troubles with a particular light, just screw the 'awkwardness' thing and go down there and stand and listen to it. Remember to turn both ways / listen to it both ways, so you hear it from all sides.
The really hard ones are the ones with several streets coming together in a point. I don't care how many people say us blind people should just be able to go straight, there is *no* straight on a corner like that, as it is the point end of a triangle most times.
Oh and don't be afraid of the idling traffic next to you as you pass it, it's as much a help as the parallel in keeping you in line.
Hope this helps someone out. And if anyone does have ideas how to cross a street of turn lanes with an island, where the parallel street does not go through, I'm game to hear it / try it out. If there is, it'd be some form of pattern to be followed.
Ok, here's my 30 cents thoughts, quantity, not necessarily quality.
Since I got involved with the teaching side of "Blind education" I have realized that there is no emphasis on the graphical or sighted world perspective on things, and I think that's rather sad.
I know it is hard to produce pictures, but I think more should be done to explain shapes and pespectives, drawings and letters to blind kids. I mean, why not have a piece of paper with the printed letter and the braille letter next to it, it'll help us appreciate things and no what the alphabet looks like. The Opticon was a very interesting experiment in this area and allowed us to read the same things sighted people do. Today we are completely shelterred from the sighted presentation of things by convertion to alternative format or speech.
In math, for instance, I always wondered what multiplying across was and above and below the dividing line in an equation, and all those little visual tricks kids were taught. I'm not saying we need to learn those, we have to learn differently, but we should understand or have seen them. E.g. if there is a new letter in the French alphabet I want to know it looks like a C with a squiggle but in braille it is represented by dots 12346 (as a completely random thing), that way if sighted kids start talking about this weird letter I can relate to what it is.
Same with web sites. We just get web sites as a stream of information with no layout clues or ideas. Sighted developers are told to never use visual attributes only to represent something e.g. "error messages in red", but why shouldn't we be able to get some sort of a page layout description or color search. This info is all contained in the html and could be implemented, at least to some extent. Of course speech or current braille technology will never give us more than a snapshot, but this is still frustrating.
If one ever tried to download material from a private ftp site, for instance. Often you had to sign up for some service or other and the password to the site was the "word in red below the logo" or "the third word in the second line below the banner", and it got a blind student (not me of course, let's call him Joe) stumped.
Regarding mobility and echo location. I use it definitely, as I had sight for 5 years I have a good spatial awareness and ability to picture things, so it's never been a problem. But I don't understand what good echo location can really do for us compared to other things (in terms of mechanical clicking devices I mean). Are we interested in knowing there's a wall thingy to the left, or do we want to know we're walking past Starbucks. I just had my first trial session with a Trekker Breeze GPS device and it was so liberating to be able to "look around", wander around, find places and be spontaneous. I think GPS is one of the most blind beneficial things to come along in ages. It has its limits, you have to be able to cross streets and such, but an iPhone with a built in compass and good gps program (Sendero are releasing their first gps product for the iPhone) could completely change the way I see the world. I could give directions to a driver in a car, look for a business, or wander off by myself in search of a new restaurant. I do not like music player and cell phone in one device, because music drains batteries and I prefer it in a smaller and handier unit separate (for one thing phones on planes are not allowed, and I hope it stays that way honestly), but a phone and gps and compass in one device is amazing to have and I hope for investment in that going forward. Imagine being able to plan routes by hooking this info to public transportation so that the phone can find the bus routes you need, where they stop and notify you when the bus pulls up and where to get off the bus.
This is all possible, just needs investment and work to pull these technologies together, and ways to make them simple and intuitive to a blind user, operable with one hand and affordable.
I know these may be neither here nor there, but I felt I had to post my excitement somewhere, and this seemed appropriate, lol.
Cheers
-B
Ah, but a total such as myself can't read the print anyway.
as someone who has been blind all my life from ROP, I figured I'd add my thoughts.
first, to the person who said one who has had sight is better off than someone who hasn't, I disagree completely. I'm in agreement with robozork here, in that you learn to get around things no matter what the case may be.
I used to have trouble with mobility as well, till I went to the Louisiana center for the blind and learned more about echo location, as well as better, more thorough cane technique.
I'd also like to add that I think the guy clicking his tongue is fuckin' crazy. and people wonder why society has a negative perception of blindness. Ben Underwood is a perfect explanation as to why...
I also don't like the whole squaring up thing. If a kerb is straight, that's one thing. But, most times, they're rounded, and if you try to line up with it, you'll wind up going into traffic. I also have a major problem with veering. No matter how much I try, I can't seem to be able to walk straight enough. The only way I can is while following a shoreline like grass. As for maths, if I remember correctly, the British braille system uses a similar layout to the print when showing fractions. I'm not sure about multiplication and/or division. I can't understand the need to see a page as a sighted person does in most cases. So long as I get the information, that's all that matters to me. I've never wondered about it's layout and would never even think to look for colours etc. But of course, the latter can come in handy when in a situation like the ftp example. As for letters, I'd love to learn them and wish that a company would make a modernised Opticon. It can still be a very valuable tool today. There are just some things that speech and braille can't give us. I couldn't agree more about a gps. I'd love to have one of those. My gods! Just thinking of all the places I could go is amazing! I'm interested in a stand-alone gps and receiver in one, like the sighted pedestrians use. I don't feel the need to get a new phone and/or really expensive software. Still, that idea does sound interesting. As for Mr. Underwood, it really bothers me that so many people are constantly putting him down. I understand if his method doesn't work for you. Not everything works for everyone. But it clearly works for him, at least enough that he's able to do many things with it, so what's the problem? I personally couldn't care what people think of me, so long as I get where I'm going and accomplish my goals.
Well, the main reason I'd go for a GPS software on a phone is cost, the phone already has built in all the hardware needed for GPS navigation, so if you buy a dedicated gps unit for navigation you are paying again for the hardware, although I am testing a Trekker breeze and I like it.
I guess it is different, some people migght not find layout or color or letters interesting at all, but I think exposing them a little bit to it could make them understand the world from a sighted perspective better, or at least offer them the chance if they are curious. Not to teach them the sighted way, but to kind of help them understand.
And, well, if you can get around by clicking your tongue that's fine. It'd make him less approachable I guess and could cause social issues may be, and I want to look as normal as possible. But if this works for him and he's happy with it, all the more power to him, just as long as it does not mean I am expected to click my tongue whenever I venture outside.
Concerning reading print, I was taught to read raised and engraved print letters and numbers when I attended a VI classroom at a mainstream school. My teacher also taught me cursive, but I forgot the better part of it. How things are set up in math or science have never mattered to me, though I think I have a general idea of how the problems are set up. Math and science are my two most hated subjects though, so I really couldn't care less.
I find it a bit difficult to cross traffic-lighted intersections, but my O&M specialist is currently working with me on this. I used to fear crossing such intersections, but these lessons have built my confidence up. I look at them now as fun challenges.
I myself veer, but I always end up veering away from my parallel traffic, which is great. It's better than ending up in the intersection itself, for sure.
I did have sight when I was a toddler. I have excellent spatial awareness and can get a feel of how things are laid out and set up quickly and easily.
I also had trouble with veering but with practice it got better.
My problem with Ben Underwood was his attitude. He seemed to think he was better than other blind people because he had this amazing ability, and he didn't even want to be associated with other blind people because he was somehow above them.
I got that impression too. Very irritating.
as did I; glad to see others feel the same way.
What is the name of this documentary? Perhaps, it's on Youtube. I guess I can type in some generic terms as well, or his name, but I'm curious.
I didn't know there was a documentary about him. I only saw him on Oprah. I'm pretty sure you can find him on youtube somewhere.
I don't think there's a documentary about him either; I know he has been on Oprah though.
He makes us look bad but ah well I'll just do what I do and pretend he doesn't exist.
There was a documentary actually. I saw it on, well, I think it was the learning channel. But I don't need to click my tongue. The only time I did that, and it won't become a regular habit, was one time when I was taking out the garbage. The can is really close to the driveway, so I just left my cane inside. Anyway, I got disoriented coming back for some reason, so doing that helped me figure out exactly where I was. I'm not recommending that for regular travel though, and I wouldn't have done it if anyone else could have heard me.
and it worked? hmmm
There is a documentory; if you type in echo location on youtube you get it - it's split into 5 parts.
I just really don't get him. He doesn't want to use a kain because it would make him look blind / weird, but he's willing to walk around clicking all the time?
Don't get me wrong, I think he's bloody amazing at it, but surely a white kain is more accepted than clicking?
Plus, he has a braillenote which screams blind person and his speech is way too slow.
Speech as in synthesizer.
Just found out that he's dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhtMXpNW1zc
rip.
he is? One less nut job.
Wow....that's a bit harsh. Talking about him as if he were a bug someone squished. That's probably not what you were implying at all, but it kind of sounds like that.
I wonder how he died?
No, clicking doesn't work all the time, or even most of the time, but in that particular situation, it worked for me.
he had cancer and was 16...and I know some of you may be surprised at this, but I echo margorp's words completely. one less nutcase to deal with.
You all are weird, and that in the extremist version:
Dying of cancer is no joke and certainly the parents must have gone through hell, let alone him. The parents no doubt still are.
What a bunch of shallow numbskulls! Criticizing the speech rate someone uses? That's way out. I've never ever seen someone be criticized for the brightness setting they choose for their Kindle or iPad, or similar portable device.
Shallow is shallow, though, and nobody can ever accuse the sighted population or any member of it for being shallow if they assert what's been put here about the rate of speech: That one beats the shallowness of America's Top Model or What Not to Wear, or any other girly shallow show. I oughta keep this one around to show to the next one claiming shallowness is related to vision. Wow!
Don't act like your shit don't stink he was special very yeah but it was a life you are talking about. A young man's life that got taken away at such a young age.
Well I don't agree that it's good he's dead, but I will say this. Karma is a bitch. If you act like an asshole, then people are going to say bad things about you even in death.
Sorry about that, I should have pointed out he was dead. I thought you all knew that. That's kind of why in my first post about him I referred to him in the past tense the whole time.
I don't deny it's sad, but it's a part of life, ya know? I think it's silly to criticize what rate of speech he used, though.
Underwood was fourteen / fifteen years old when his story and life were featured in the news. Most fourteen year old boys have a larger than life attitude and think they're better than everyone else. I was an immature asshole at fourteen -- chances are many of you were, too.
At fourteen, Underwood had what many blind teens complain they don't: support, friends, strong If at least not interesting travel skills, and a chance to gain popularity and self recognition through the media. Like it or not, Underwood knew how to work the system and to make a name for himself. With a little growing up and a bit of guidance, Underwood's short term fame and influence could have cleared the way for long term personal success. It would have been nice If other blind people reached out to Underwood to work with and guide him like Daniel Kish did; instead, many of them publically denounced him on internet mailing lists and message boards, complaining about his lack of genuine blindness skills and portrayal of blindness.
Disappointing, but not surprising. Yeah, karma is certainly a bitch.
Brice
Okay, I was harsh. It's never a joke when someone is dead but look at his legacy. I don't make light of someone's death but I don't mourn the same way as most do.
@Robozork, I'm sorry you thought my post was shallow. It was something that I added at the last minute in a joking reference to some trates that blind people exibit (Be them good or bad) such as the speed of which they have there speech. Obviously in retrospect it wasn't overly funny at all and I wouldn't have dreamed of joking about anything if I had known that he was dead when I had posted it.
If it's any consolation, if most other people on here had called me shallow I probably wouldn't have bothered to reply.
Once again, I'm sorry if I caused any offence to anyone.
none taken. Never heard of anyone comment on rates of speech, but compared to what some of you all run, based on the board topic discussing it, I run mine rather slow. Faster than the factory, but only by twenty percent or so.
Sure, he got way too much media attention, but everyone's life has value. No, I don't mourn, but I feel sorry to those who are at a great loss.
To get back on track with mobility, echo location and whatever, I think there's a topic well-deserving of attention: Veering.
I am fedup, sick and disgusted with folks claiming a blind person should be able to not veer at all.
Naturally we all know enough to be reasonable regarding staying on the correct side of the sidewalk, or close to it, and certainly not running into folks, but there is no way you will not veer.
Taking the motorist as an example: You know that hands-free driving is dangerous, but do you know it's dangerous on what you thinkk is a straight road where no traffic will ever come? It is, because the motorist's job is not to aim, but to adjust constantly. This means without thinking about it, the motorist very slightly turns the steering wheel left and right, keeping the automobile in line. If going fast enough and pointing straight were all there was to it, a perfectly-aligned set of axles on a car could in fact run it perfectly straight. It can't of course, not even if the grooves were removed from the road and the car ran on smooth glass.
The earth, contrary to what some of these supposed 'blindness' experts may claim, is not flat, though I realize they need no understanding of geophysics to enact their masturbatory pleasures.
I think though, that we as blind travelers have far more in common with motorists than perhaps meets the eye. Rather than a fake, fanatical, and religious devotion to not veering, if you use a point of reference to keep on track, you will as a result veer less. What I mean is if you're following a building and you use the sound bouncing off the wall, the result will be you will veer less.
If you are heading down the sidewalk and use the occasional passing car or bike as a reference to keep you on track, the net result will be you will veer less. You will, as does a motorist, have to make the slight corrections the Flat Earthers claim you shouldn't have to, and so, yes, there will be times you can be seen to veer. The Flat Earthers do too: If you could attach a device that measured angular changes to their ankle, you would find them veering and correcting back again very subtly and rapidly.
But as you use one sound or another as a reference, you will be able to make the subtle turns the sidewalks make, which the Flat Earthers / Geometrically Challenged call going in a straight line.
So for you, if you struggle with veering, I'd say don't focus on that: focus on whatever auditory cues can give you points of reference. With sound, then, you're doing what sighted people do with vision. You will still veer, and to some at least, it will still be noticeable to a point, but you won't be constrained by attempting to solve a problem which is both physically and geometrically impossible. The basic reason that the veering you or I do will be more noticeable than that of a sighted pedestrian is simply the difference between what you and I take for input, and what they do. The processing is still the same.
To the geophysics-ignorant and geometrically impaired flat earthers who propose we all ought to be able to go perfectly straight, testing their supposed generalization (and that is being generous), try going 100 yards rather than fifteen feet, and we'll see how supposedly straight they actually go. Of course explaining the geometry and physics of why they will fail is probably beyond the scope of their comprehension.
That's a really good way of putting it, way better than any mobility teacher has ever explained to me.
for me veering is a serious problem since i do have a hearing disability so have a hard time hearing some stuff. I've gotten somewhat better at it over time now, but one thing that always gets me is say you're on a crossing of a street with a hill. that will throw me off, every single time.
What you're saying makes perfect sense, because in your case you are forced to use what's under your feet more than someone using sound.
I suppose the only thing you can do is note both hills: the hill that goes up or down from your right or left, and when you enter the street, you start at the bottom of its incline and between lanes you crest a small hill which is not very noticeable to the rest of us. I imagine you would have to move slower and be more patient than the rest of us.
But you certainly have my sympathies, whether or not the flat earthers ever sympathize, or have the facilities for it.
i've actually done better at crossings once i know an area than some sighted people have, but then again it depends on what's happening around me
Somehow, I think we do better than we give ourselves credit fore.